A Conversation on Divine #1

Kolu is a Christian and Polu is a person (atheist or agnostic not certain) and Bholu is a friend of Kolu. Below is the conversation between them. The names are changed to hide their identity.

Polu: There is nothing like, wrong or right, good or bad, true or untrue.
Kolu: How?
Polu: all these are man-made socially fabricated stuffs.
Kolu: If I butcher a young baby right here before you. Would you think I have done anything wrong?

Kolu: nothing wrong !!

Bholu: how is that possible. How can you say it’s not wrong ????

Polu: ok ok Yes! You would do wrong by killing a baby.

Kolu: Why?
Polu: You can’t take a life.
Kolu: Why?
Polu: Because you can’t give it back.
Kolu: So how can not giving a life back qualifies the act of terminating it as wrong.
Polu: It’s just wrong. (Read second comment)
Kolu: Do you eat chicken?
Polu: Yep.
Kolu: Isn’t it a life? So why you kill it since you can’t give it back either.
Polu: why are you connecting this with that?
Kolu: How does a life of a chicken differ from a life of a baby?
Polu: wait wait!!! I want to change!!! I mean there is nothing wrong in it. I told before I want to say it again that all these things are man-made…nothing is wrong.
Kolu: You can’t say two things at the same time.
Polu: No, I can!!
Kolu: In philosophy it’s contradictory.
Polu: How?
Kolu: Can you call this room black and also call it white at the same time?
Polu: Yeah you can!!! It’s up to your perspective.
Kolu: It’s absurd!!
Polu: Why? Let me explain if a boy is born in a butcher family… boy would be immune to the hurt of butchering but if a boy is born in a Brahmin family… he would never comply with such practice. So all that matters is where you are born. Your environment dictates your thinking.
Kolu: That’s about killing animal not human. My question was human killing.
Polu: It’s all same!!
Kolu: So it means you don’t believe in conscience.
Polu: What’s that?
Kolu: A moral law in your heart that tells you that those things are wrong when you do them. This works regardless of any context you are into. It holds you guilty.
Polu: that’s not possible
Kolu: Why? Every human in the face of the earth knows that killing, hurting, raping, stealing, harming, etc. is absolutely wrong. Absolutely wrong! Even chief criminals after having been caught and given final verdict of punishment confessed that what did was wrong.
Polu: Might be!!
Kolu: From a baby to old all know certain things are wrong and evil. And it’s not environmental but universal. And this is called conscience. The Moral law within.
Polu: hmm
Kolu: Don’t you believe in objectivity of anything.
Polu: Hmm
Kolu: There is objectivity to everything you see. Let’s take history. One century from now if someone comes and tells there was no Mahatma Gandhi. How would you prove that he existed?
Polu: There will be a group who would oppose it and another who would support it.
Kolu: But you will resort to history. Because is history is objective. SO there are more documents and data and scientist and scholars (including criminal investigators and advocates) from all the fields of science who, with their research, prove Christ is a historical figure and died and rose from the dead. And there are more books written on Christ Jesus than any other figures of history.
Polu: Talk on ISIS (whether their act is qur’anic or not). What they do is not based on Quran. They are funded by US other countries to terrorise and take control over oil.
Kolu: It is based on Quran. What you presented in a conspiracy theory. They just want to establish Caliphate (a religio-political rule by a religious leader). Islam is a religio-political religion, which is against the notion of secular state.
Polu: No!!!
Kolu: what do you mean by life?
Polu: just live your life and do good to others and help needy. That’s all.
Kolu: why help needy? If there’s nothing good or bad.
Polu: You get a good feeling when you help others.
Kolu: If it’s about feeling. You get good feeling by taking marijuana. You get same dopamine secretion as helping others. And your brain tells you that you at great satisfaction not desperation. Still there is no good or bad there. So why help?
Polu: hmmm
Kolu: Ok, fine. Let me ask another question. What you say tells me there is nothing wrong or nothing right…everything is just ok ok ok. So I follow you…I can’t say the word wrong to anyone at any time. What police is doing is wrong then. Police bars the criminals. Isn’t it? According to you they shouldn’t. When someone steals you mobile please don’t hit him. When someone boards your seat please don’t fight him. Since nothing is wrong and bad… sounds simple. Isn’t???
Polu: Hmm……You know what; I don’t believe in all these gods and goddess (33 million), don’t believe in Hinduism. There is no God at all.
Kolu: So you are an atheist?
Polu: Atheist??? I hardly understand 15% of myself of who I’m let alone the whole universe and beyond.
Kolu: So now you are switching the ground from atheist to agnostic. Aren’t you?
Polu: hmm
Kolu: Well I appreciate your level. Because you are above Hinduism. That’s great!!! Because Hinduism is not a single religion (idea) but a museum of faiths. You have everything you want to select from. Nothing is objective here and everything is contradictory.
Polu: Where do believe in judgement day?
Kolu: Yes, of course I believe in the Day of Judgment. All that I have done while here on the earth will be brought forth in the Day of Judgment before Christ.
Polu: What will happen to you on that day?
Kolu: I’ll escape the judgement since I have accepted the sacrifice of Jesus for the sake of sins. Hope you know it.
Polu: Tell me the whole story I don’t know it.
Kolu: See…for every wrong there is a pay. Even in our judiciary laws. Criminal has to pay. So that we do. We do sins all the time right from birth to death. And we are held guilty before God (ultimate judge). Now to escape this judgement we need ransom or a penalty to be paid. Therefore, God instituted concept of sacrifice in the Old Testament, and He also said this animal sacrifice is just a SHADOW not the FINAL. There is a final sacrifice to be done in the future. And before 2000 years before Christ Jesus came as a final sacrifice to atone our sins at the cross of Calvary. And this is proven fact. God did it because of His love for humanity. That’s why greatest command of Jesus which no one gave, “Love and love your neighbor”. God just wants your love nothing more nothing less. And God showed it first by giving himself for you. So you escape judgement through Christ. People who could not hear gospel will be judged based on their conscience (inbuilt moral law). And those who heard and denied will be sent to hell. Because of their rejection of Christ and love for sinful lifestyle.
Polu: So you believe in the life after death?
Kolu: Yes, absolutely. Now tell me about the origin of man.
Polu: Leave it.
Kolu: Why?
Polu: Just leave it.
Kolu: How can you talk about death and after life without the origin? Tell me how man came?
Polu: Okay… I believe in energy. I’m a part of it.
Kolu: How you happened to be here?
Polu: Energy willed me to be in this body.
Kolu: So you mean that energy possess a “WILL”. When you connect “Will” to energy you are personifying the energy. It’s an attribute of a personhood though be human or divine.
Bholu to Polu: wait wait…If you say its energy…How does that require a human copulation to procreate? Why can’t energy create itself without human assistance?
Kolu: Hmm…!!! That’s how it is. Now you tell me how many parts are there in a mind.
Polu: Intellect, free Will and emotion.
Kolu: I’ll explain…there are 16 levels, mainly 4…hmm wait!!!!
Polu: Do you follow it
Kolu: Hey, it’s not possible for me. I have to be like you. I have to leave everything and live in some mountains or jungle.
Polu: It means you don’t follow what you say.
Kolu: Well, I can help you meet people who do this.
Polu: have they attained??
Kolu: Hmm
Polu: Its highly abstract and complex even you can’t explain and practice yourself.
Kolu: No its not !!!
Polu: Then explain….!!!
Kolu: I’ll and went out for puffing !!!

To be continued…!!!

(Polu’s idea in the beginning was Moral then became amoral and then immoral. He was, first, atheist and then became agnostic and then again energy-theory-believer, of which he has no idea to explain neither does he practices himself)

Hope we find ample time for further discussion. Well, energy theory sounded quite interesting though.

The simple lesson to learn here is that you can’t have morality without a moral law and you can’t have a moral law without a giver, consequently, for me that giver is God.

Notice: suggest corrections if needed.

Image courtesy: FB